6.5 Brooks & Dionne (8/13/09)
Brooks, David and Dionne, E.J. (2009) "Obama’s Theologian: David Brooks and E.J. Dionne on Reinhold Niebuhr and the American Present,” a dialogue mediated by Krista Tippett at the Berkley Center, Georgetown University on August 13, 2009.
Quick Look
Dialogue Participants
David Brooks became a New York Times Op-Ed columnist in September 2003. He has been a senior editor at The Weekly Standard, a contributing editor at Newsweek and the Atlantic Monthly, and he is currently a commentator on "The Newshour with Jim Lehrer." He is the author of "Bobos In Paradise: The New Upper Class and How They Got There" and “On Paradise Drive: How We Live Now (And Always Have) in the Future Tense,” both published by Simon & Schuster. His most recent book is “The Social Animal: The Hidden Sources of Love, Character, and Achievement,” published by Random House in March 2011. (The New York Times) E.J. Dionne is a twice-weekly columnist for The Washington Post, writing on national policy and politics. His column appears on Tuesdays and Fridays. Before joining The Post in 1990 as a political reporter, he spent 14 years at The New York Times, covering local, state, and national politics, and also serve as a foreign correspondent in Paris, Rome and Beirut. Dionne began his column for The Post in 1993. He is a University Professor at Georgetown University and a senior fellow at The Brookings Institution. Dionne has been a frequent commentator on politics for National Public Radio, ABC's "This Week," and NBC's "Meet the Press." His book "Why Americans Hate Politics" (1991), won the Los Angeles Times Book Prize and was a National Book Award nominee. His most recent book is "Souled Out: Reclaiming Faith & Politics After the Religious Right" (2008). He is also author of "Stand Up Fight Back: Republican Toughs, Democratic Wimps, and the Politics of Revenge" (2004), and "They Only Look Dead: Why Progressives Will Dominate The Next Political Era" (1996). (Washington Post) Facilitator Krista Tippett is a broadcaster, journalist, and author. She is best known for creating and hosting the public radio program On Being, distributed and produced by American Public Media. (Wikipedia) |
The video and transcript is available at http://www.onbeing.org/program/obama039s-theologian-david-brooks-and-ej-dionne-reinhold-niebuhr-and-american-present-1
(Please note: you will need to click on the second picture on that webpage to get the video of the full dialogue, and also the transcript on that page is on a shortened version.) |
This Resource’s Key Interpretations and Insights Related to the Purposes of This Website
This dialogue demonstrates how 20th-century public theologian Reinhold Niebuhr is a major influence on Obama's
realistic idealism, as he also is on Brooks and Dionne themselves--two of our most important American commentators, one center-right and one center-left.
This dialogue was designed to explore how the 20th-century theologian and public intellectual Reinhold Niebuhr has influenced Barack Obama, who has said Niebuhr is one of his favorite philosophers. However, it has a broader goal of exploring how Niebuhr is widely revered by people from all parts of the political and theological spectrum, and is seen as very relevant in post-George W. Bush America.
The fact that the dialogue partners--both fundamentally influenced by Niebuhr--are David Brooks, a conservative columnist, and E.J. Dionne, a liberal columnist--makes their conversation quite informative. From my perspective, they receive some of the same ideas from Niebuhr in quite different ways, because the former is center-right in his basic orientation while the latter is center-left.
Early in the dialogue (on the full-length video), Brooks gave his concise definition of classical conservatism in a way that has been helpful to me. See quote 1 (below). I think his statement that the Republican Party had moved far away from that kind of conservatism in 2009 applies even more so in 2012.
For example, quotes 2,3 and 4 (below) show how both Brooks and Dionne have been fundamentally influenced by Niebuhr's "Christian realism." Both see the necessity of holding idealism and realism together for a healthy worldview, while recognizing the weaknesses and dangers in each when not balanced by the other. In my terms, this makes them both centrists. However, in the details of the dialogue, you can see that each holds the opposite--idealism or realism--as more foundational. They both see Obama as a realistic idealist (center-left) as is Dionne. But Brooks can also affirm Obama's position, because they both see realism as very important, even though for Obama it is not as fundamental as idealism.
Another example, seen in quotes 5,6 and 7 (below) of Obama's realistic idealism is how he deals with American exceptionalism and the tragic element in any employment of power. Obama is often charged from the Right with a lack of patriotism and from the Left with a too easy resort to violence and war. Actually, it's Obama's realistic idealist belief that America needs both a humble exceptionalism and war as a last, tragic resort that draws fire from both sides of the spectrum. Obama's Nobel Prize Acceptance Speech (which I will be reviewing soon) is the best resource for Obama's position on these issues that is so often misunderstood.
This dialogue demonstrates how 20th-century public theologian Reinhold Niebuhr is a major influence on Obama's
realistic idealism, as he also is on Brooks and Dionne themselves--two of our most important American commentators, one center-right and one center-left.
This dialogue was designed to explore how the 20th-century theologian and public intellectual Reinhold Niebuhr has influenced Barack Obama, who has said Niebuhr is one of his favorite philosophers. However, it has a broader goal of exploring how Niebuhr is widely revered by people from all parts of the political and theological spectrum, and is seen as very relevant in post-George W. Bush America.
The fact that the dialogue partners--both fundamentally influenced by Niebuhr--are David Brooks, a conservative columnist, and E.J. Dionne, a liberal columnist--makes their conversation quite informative. From my perspective, they receive some of the same ideas from Niebuhr in quite different ways, because the former is center-right in his basic orientation while the latter is center-left.
Early in the dialogue (on the full-length video), Brooks gave his concise definition of classical conservatism in a way that has been helpful to me. See quote 1 (below). I think his statement that the Republican Party had moved far away from that kind of conservatism in 2009 applies even more so in 2012.
For example, quotes 2,3 and 4 (below) show how both Brooks and Dionne have been fundamentally influenced by Niebuhr's "Christian realism." Both see the necessity of holding idealism and realism together for a healthy worldview, while recognizing the weaknesses and dangers in each when not balanced by the other. In my terms, this makes them both centrists. However, in the details of the dialogue, you can see that each holds the opposite--idealism or realism--as more foundational. They both see Obama as a realistic idealist (center-left) as is Dionne. But Brooks can also affirm Obama's position, because they both see realism as very important, even though for Obama it is not as fundamental as idealism.
Another example, seen in quotes 5,6 and 7 (below) of Obama's realistic idealism is how he deals with American exceptionalism and the tragic element in any employment of power. Obama is often charged from the Right with a lack of patriotism and from the Left with a too easy resort to violence and war. Actually, it's Obama's realistic idealist belief that America needs both a humble exceptionalism and war as a last, tragic resort that draws fire from both sides of the spectrum. Obama's Nobel Prize Acceptance Speech (which I will be reviewing soon) is the best resource for Obama's position on these issues that is so often misunderstood.
Quotes from the Dialogue
#1 - "To me, the core of conservatism is epistemological modesty and awareness of original sin. The Republican Party has drifted far away from this. But this is the core of conservatism--that we don't know much about the world, that we are therefore beholden to the traditions and institutions that we inherit...(Niebuhr) was the kind of liberal we could do business with. But I think he transcends that. He captures conservative attention because he also (has the sympathies I just mentioned)."
#2 - David Brooks: "Niebuhr warns us of a lot of useful things about humility, about tragedy, about sin, and modesty. As Americans we have a counter-tradition, which counsels optimism, daringness, risk-taking. And reconciling the two, staying American in the most optimistic, ebullient sense of that word while being conscious of Niebuhr is the central challenge."
#3 - E.J. Dionne: "...the joy of a progressive worldview or a liberal worldview is indeed its hopefulness, its optimism, its sense of human possibility, but the core weakness of that worldview, as Niebuhr always understood, was a lack of awareness of human frailty, the human capacity to sin...I think that he (Obama) is in so many ways a Niebuhrian realist...There's a tension in Niebuhr. Christian realism itself is not an oxymoron, but, boy, that's a concept in tension."
#4 - David Brooks: "And if you look at every movement that is mobilizing, it may have a Niebuhrian element, but is also deeply inspiring and vaguely Utopian. Whether it's John F. Kennedy or even Martin Luther King or Abraham Lincoln. And this is where the limitations of Niebuhr--he did not know how to mobilize people."
#5 - Krista Tippett, quotes Niebuhr: "We take and must continue to take morally hazardous actions to preserve our civilization. We must exercise our power, but we ought neither to believe a nation is capable of perfect disinterestedness in its exercise nor become complacent about particular degrees of interest and passion, which corrupt the justice by which the exercise of power is legitimatized."
#6 - David Brooks: Well, that is my favorite Niebuhr quotation, and the phrase 'morally hazardous action' is a very coplicated phrase."
#7 - E.J. Dionne: "So, you know, the notion that you can believe that American power can be used for good and have no illusions about ourselves, about American power, and be fearful that it might be used for ill is, I think, what Niebuhr taught us."
#1 - "To me, the core of conservatism is epistemological modesty and awareness of original sin. The Republican Party has drifted far away from this. But this is the core of conservatism--that we don't know much about the world, that we are therefore beholden to the traditions and institutions that we inherit...(Niebuhr) was the kind of liberal we could do business with. But I think he transcends that. He captures conservative attention because he also (has the sympathies I just mentioned)."
#2 - David Brooks: "Niebuhr warns us of a lot of useful things about humility, about tragedy, about sin, and modesty. As Americans we have a counter-tradition, which counsels optimism, daringness, risk-taking. And reconciling the two, staying American in the most optimistic, ebullient sense of that word while being conscious of Niebuhr is the central challenge."
#3 - E.J. Dionne: "...the joy of a progressive worldview or a liberal worldview is indeed its hopefulness, its optimism, its sense of human possibility, but the core weakness of that worldview, as Niebuhr always understood, was a lack of awareness of human frailty, the human capacity to sin...I think that he (Obama) is in so many ways a Niebuhrian realist...There's a tension in Niebuhr. Christian realism itself is not an oxymoron, but, boy, that's a concept in tension."
#4 - David Brooks: "And if you look at every movement that is mobilizing, it may have a Niebuhrian element, but is also deeply inspiring and vaguely Utopian. Whether it's John F. Kennedy or even Martin Luther King or Abraham Lincoln. And this is where the limitations of Niebuhr--he did not know how to mobilize people."
#5 - Krista Tippett, quotes Niebuhr: "We take and must continue to take morally hazardous actions to preserve our civilization. We must exercise our power, but we ought neither to believe a nation is capable of perfect disinterestedness in its exercise nor become complacent about particular degrees of interest and passion, which corrupt the justice by which the exercise of power is legitimatized."
#6 - David Brooks: Well, that is my favorite Niebuhr quotation, and the phrase 'morally hazardous action' is a very coplicated phrase."
#7 - E.J. Dionne: "So, you know, the notion that you can believe that American power can be used for good and have no illusions about ourselves, about American power, and be fearful that it might be used for ill is, I think, what Niebuhr taught us."
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